How the heck am I supposed to know if I am in a relationship? And what is intimacy?

I am still talking to the same man that I talked about in my last post.  This is what I have learned.  Dating sucks! Online dating is easier in some ways...but it is still hard to 'put yourself out there'...and when you start talking to guys it is hard to figure out if you 'have something' because he is not asking you out or anything.

So...I went from sending the occasional message that gets a response in a day or so to chatting on facebook with my man.  Can you say 'amp up the relationship with lightning speed'? Wow...just being able to talk about whatever and get an immediate response had a huge impact on what we were talking about.

I can't remember (or maybe I don't want to remember) how soon the conversation turned to sex and I started 'dumping out' my issues. My concerns about having him touch me if we meet, how I want to have a healthy intimate relationship but there are going to be a few bumps in the road. If I think about it it is embarrassing how much information I shared.

The other weird thing is once you bring up sex...because we have both been married before it is easier to start talking more and more about it..the more we talked about it the easier it became to 'keep in my head' without those feelings of 'fight or flight' and I realized that here I was talking about wanting to do all these intimate things and I was not afraid. I was not feeling the fear and panic that I had felt over the last few years when thinking about sex and/or my abuse...so we talked some more...then we realized something...it is hard to figure out what is ok to talk about and what is not. Applying the Law of Chastity on adults that have been married can be tricky.

When I was married I talked about and did all these things and it didn't affect my ability to teach a lesson on Sundays. It had no effect on my spirituality.  There was nothing wrong with talking at all. But now I sit and think if my teenage children were saying the things I was saying I would march them down to see the Bishop. Dating the second time around is just plain weird.  So after a few 'sex conversations/fantasies' we decided to back off a little and then I noticed that as we shared 'dreams/fantasies' with each other it became more about how we felt towards each other. It became how we hoped that if we got married our children would get along and we would have fabulous memories of times spent together. As I was pondering the difference in what we were sharing I was also trying to understand what I was feeling. I began to notice a difference in how I felt about all the 'sex talk' compared to the sharing of dreams talks. I began to feel a warmth in my heart when I thought about him and it seemed so much deeper than the arousal feelings. I thought about how caring he is when he tries to answer my million questions and how important it is for him to understand me. I began to feel a warmth that I had not experienced before. I have decided that it is the beginning of intimacy. I feel it is a connection to him combined with a feeling of desire and arousal.  Wow...I have really been missing out in life. This feeling just kind of warms my soul. I am thinking intimacy is something I will like.

I was talking to my visiting teacher and she has a similar background to mine and she loves to 'sum up' after I talk to her. So she says, "what you are telling me is that you feel the joy of intimacy and want to experience it with him? And you are realizing that it feels good to experience these feelings?" Yeah, that was an understatement. I don't think I have ever felt what I am feeling and I haven't even met my man yet.

Now...don't get me wrong...I realize the danger in developing an emotional connection with someone that I haven't met yet. I realize that instead of the 'truly stud man' I see in his profile it could be like the identity theft commercials and be some punky kid or an old lady or something. So what I am doing is truly trying to 'feel' when he talks or messages me. I am looking to see if he is trying to exercise 'power or authority' over me. Trying to control me...my man is not doing that. I am looking to see if he is avoiding certain questions that I am asking or trying to hide information. My man is not doing that. I am trying to see if he is 'getting something for nothing' out of the relationship...for example the fact that we 'stopped' talking about sex and he is still right there waiting for me is a huge indicator that he is who he appears to be.

Have I met him?  No.
Do I sometimes thing he might be something different than I perceive?  Once in awhile..
Am I going to 'commit' to him before I meet him? No...
Am I falling in love with him?  Yes.
Do I think the Lord helped me through all the trials I have endured the last couple of years  to end up in a failed marriage? No.

So...what do I do?
I stay aware of my spirituality. I 'feel' how I am doing and what I am thinking.  I will be in tune so that I may hear the desires of the Holy Ghost.

I have never had someone communicate such love, patience, compassion, and desire. He makes me feel that his happiness is aided by him pleasing me. Wow...what a concept!

Oh yeah...he is kind of hung up on 'communication'. I think he said it in every sentence the first day or 2 we were talking...but I gotta say..I think that is why we are where we are in our relationship. It just might work.

Online dating, chatting, messaging, texting, etc....

So...I've been looking online for a month or so...Wow..there are a lot of guys out there!

It is interesting what I can pick up from their responses...I have found that if I say something about their picture...they will then look at my profile and sometimes message me. I am having fun with this quite a bit. For example...I saw a profile of a man that was 20 years younger than me...I message and say, "Here's to hoping you like older women!" Well..I got a message back a few days later..."Do you like younger men?" Ok, I know it isn't even a smart thing to think about...but I gotta say...I was having some fun there for a bit.

Then you know what I realized?  I was smiling more...I started joking with my kids more.  I was happier.  Maybe opening my heart up to the idea of having a man in my life would make it easier to love my children. Maybe it isn't possible to close off a section of your heart and not have it affect other parts as well. Maybe I would be able to open up my heart and love a man...if that man was the right man....maybe...

So...dating at my age (let's just say most of the men had grandchildren) is a whole new ball game. My friend gave me some counsel...she said, "There is less rejection at our age because everyone is just looking for a good fit...so it is more of a...Nawh...I don't think it will work. With neither one wanting to deal with another 'mismatch'" So...here I go...

I have messaged some guys...chatted with some others...and actually talked on the phone with some. Crazy how fast it turns into...well...I don't want to get married yet...too soon after my divorce, death of my spouse, etc. Or...well...this might work...we have lots of things in common.  Completely different world...

So...where am I right now?  Well...I am talking to a guy quite a bit...we both have baggage (who doesn't nowadays?) and the best part about him?  He listens to me...truly listens...and just talking to him and having him listen...is making my heart open. He talks about how he would treat me...he tells me I can ask him anything I want (I think I have asked him about 200 questions - and he has answered every single one...not been crabby, moody or annoyed..he answers and then says, "What else do you want to know?"...and it is a whole different world from the one I have been living in. And so now I am wondering...it is real?  Is this the 'love and passion' that other people have in their relationships?  People that don't have 'touch issues' and everything else that messes with your ability to have healthy relationships?  Or....is this just the tip of the ice berg?  And it can be so much better...I can't even fathom it...

Am I scared.?  yes.
Am I worried I will screw up my life again?  yes.
Am I afraid of having a man come towards me that is 'reeking' sexual energy?  yes.
If it happens (I meet a man that is attracted to me) will I run away like I have all my life?  no, I want to live the life I was meant to live...I want to love with all the love inside of me...to share it with someone that will give it back and maybe even more. In order for this to happen I will have to open up my heart and feel and get hurt and be afraid and not run.  I don't think the Lord helped me to come all this way to have me fail...so...wish me luck!

Seriously? I have less baggage now then before I got married? I'm healing?

I still have this annoying drive to 'find a man' and it is going to make me crazy.  Just saying...

I can't believe I have gone from never wanting a man to touch me intimately to desiring to have someone to share my life with and truly love...and feel him love me.

So I am talking to my friend the counselor..(she isn't my personal counselor...she just works as a counselor) and I am gripping that I could find a good man when I was young...why would I be able to find a better man now that I am old and gray...with 5 kids...and more emotional baggage than I can sometimes handle?

Her response...are you ready for this one?

She tells me that I actually have less baggage than when I was young. Mainly, because I am not hiding from my issues and I am much more aware of myself and what I think, do and feel. Wow...that was a 'shocker' I must say. So...I am 'creepin on guys' (as my daughter says) and seeing what is out there online.

I must say I am learning quite a bit from reading all the profiles...much can be learned by looking at photos (who is in them, does their smile change when they are in pictures with their kids, do they have pictures of their kids? do they just have pictures of boats, motorcycles, etc. or are they doing things with friends)

It is quite interesting..to say the least.

So...I am in the Temple (like always) and I have become such close friends with so many of the workers..I can just feel their love.  I am doing intiatories...starting to cry like always...trying to figure out what feelings I am feeling...what feelings the workers have...and they all start telling me how much they love me...how much they love seeing me...how they feel my Spirit...how much the Lord loves me...and finally one of them tells me (they know the basics of my background...I figured they deserved that after seeing me have emotional breakdowns every week) one of the ladies that always makes me feel so good says, "I know with your background you may wonder about these blessings...but I want to tell you that you have an incredible future ahead of you. All those blessings are for you. Everytime I say them to you...the Spirit tells me that they are for you!" (ok...she is not the first worker to tell me that.) She kind of sat there and looked at me and kept mumbling..."Incredible future"

When it was time to go..another worker came up to me (she is leaving on a mission with her husband and will only be there one more week) she is looking at me and crying..and she tells me that she wants me to know that I am beautiful. She stammers and says, "It's not that you weren't beautiful before, you are very pretty...but the last few months I have seen a change in you...the light in your eyes...the corners of your mouth...your lips...just everything about you...every time I looked at you tonight I just thought how beautiful you are." She kept struggling to explain and I told her...I understood what she was saying...and that I can sometimes feel my countenance changing...and I think it is a sign that I am healing...

I sent an email last April when I started my blog asking for some pointers from a man that maintains a site...he responded a few days ago. He apologized that it took so long because my email was in his spam folder....I thought this was interesting since I don't know anyone that would go through his spam folder and look at emails that are 4 months old?  He was very kind in what he said...and I loved his last paragraph...he was telling me a few ideas and pointers to help me with my blog...and he closed his email with...

"Hope this was helpful and for what’s it worth, I enjoyed the few moments I spent on your blog. You’re a good writer and your story should be interesting to a lot of people – dealing with divorce in the LDS community. I could feel a lot of pain and sympathy as I read some of your posts. If it means anything coming from someone you don’t know and will never meet, I feel the Savior’s love for you and pray for your healing to be effective. After all, isn’t that what we all seek – to be healed. And who is the only one who can heal us? That’s right – the Savior."

So...here is to 'US' that are trying to heal...may we all feel the love of our Savior and know that healing is possible and we can all live again. That we may all know that we have a glorious future!

Have a wonderful Sabbath!

Touch issues, intimacy, wanting to love and wanting to be loved....

Ok...This is how I understand some of my issues...

I was sexually abused as a child. I can't remember how it started (and apparently I am not going to be able to) I just know that I was 7 or so and the boy next door would come and do whatever horrible things he wanted to me and I would just passively lay there and tolerate it. I did come to realize later that I was not being 'passive' I just did not have the ability to stand up and fight back..to tell him no.  Can you say, "disassociate?" Anyway...

Let's just say I acquired some 'intimacy issues'. As I grew up I remember I used to wear dresses and whatever all the time...but as I got older I turned more 'tomboy' and didn't like to dress up. I was never into make-up very much. I guess it was around puberty that I really started shying away from dressing nice. I think I could sense some type of 'energy' in dressing up nicer and the way people looked at me. I feel that my 'phobia' got worse as I got older. I wonder if it was complicated by the fact that I am tall and I always looked older than I was...I remember being a freshman and people asking me 'what is your major?' and I would reply.."I'm in HIGH SCHOOL!" So I am thinking the fact that I looked older just amplified my issues?

So...I am in high school...don't really date...didn't really enjoy going to the dances...it made me too self conscious of my height...hung out with guys and they would always tell me how relaxed they were around me. So I was contend (for the most part) with that...

After high school...I did date a little...the first guy I fell in love with...I was 'sooooo in puppy love'. He loved music, he was passionate, he treated me like a girl. He opened the doors, tried really hard to be a gentleman. Well...there was never anything 'physical' other than hand holding...but we could talk for hours...

Yeah...he is gay now...I realize now that my attraction to him and my X was based on the fact that there was no 'sexual energy' and that made me feel safe and comfortable.

I did go out with another man...I was about 20 and he was 23 or so. His family owned a farm and he 'kind of ran it since his father died...hard worker...good money...he took me out a couple of times..spent lots of money...I remember the last time...he brought me to my door (I was living at home with my parents) and asked for a kiss. I had never really kissed anyone (my abuse never involved my mouth that I can remember) and I said, "sure" thinking it would just be a peck. Well, I felt more pressure than I anticipated and felt the power of his tongue (it took me a split second to recognize what it was and what he was doing) but by that time I had shoved him away and tried to get inside my house. Unfortunately, the door was locked...I began to pound on the door and ring the door bell (it was very late) and I am telling him, "Just leave...leave me alone..." (crazy...I haven't thought about this in detail...with my new 'sexual abuse lenses' and it is making me cry) he is apologizing profusely and I am madly pounding on the door. My mother finally comes downstairs to open the door and sees me and panics and asks if I am ok...I tell her yes and run to my room. He kept calling for a couple of weeks and sent me a huge bouquet of flowers...but I would never answer or talk to him. I think I was terrified of what I felt and also very embarrassed because of how I reacted.

Then I go on my mission...I went to Latin America and had companions that wanted to kiss me good night and hold hands with me...yeah...I had to just tell them upfront that I was a 'cold North American' that was worse than normal. And I would do my best to let them know I cared about them...but I struggled.

So...after my mission I had room mates...2 were incredibly social and so I was exposed to guys quite a bit..I was always great at being a 'friend'...occasionally I would be in moods to dress up...and dated a few guys...but nothing big. Oh..one of my roommates was extremely 'touchy' and was probably one of the best things that ever happened to me. She helped me to understand what 'safe touch' was. I learned it was ok to sit in church with your arm around someone and have it be nothing more than a gesture of friendship...no sexual undertones..just friendship. I learned better how to hug a friend and how it meant nothing more than 'I care about you'. It was good for me and I am still incredibly close to this friend today.

Then I start dating a guy that had only had one girl friend his entire life. The girl he dated before his mission...she said she would wait for him...he came back and she 'wanted more' and went off to school and married someone else. That was about 10 years previous...he hadn't really dated anyone since.  We went out for several months..he loved to drive..we would drive and talk..he would call and we would talk...his job resulted in traveling and he would send me letters and post cards...sometimes a package...we were never physical, but we could talk about anything....

About this time I signed up to take a massage class. People told me I was a natural and I was starting to realize I had 'touch issues' and I had better do something about it if I ever wanted to get married and have children.

Then my room mate got engaged...he (the guy I had been dating) freaked out and went back to his family in Montana...he did finally marry a girl.  (At least he wasn't gay :)

Then I started dating my X. He asked if he could give me a kiss after a couple of dates and I said yes...I freaked out and kind of pushed him away...but not as bad as the other guy. He wasn't trying to kiss me the same, there wasn't the same 'sexual energy'. I still felt bad..so I asked him over the next night and we went for a walk and I told him that I had been abused and I had some 'touch' issues. He was extremely patient and said that he would never force me to do anything and to let him know when I was ready. He was true to his word and never pressured me. I now realize he was not in a place to 'give emotionally' and was patient and willing to do whatever to 'get it'.

So...we are at a dance at church...I realize that all my roommates are either at the dance or at work and my house is empty.  I tell him I am ready to try kissing...we go home...he was very good to just let me do whatever I wanted. I remember thinking how patient he was...just letting me do whatever I felt comfortable doing. This evolved into sometimes laying on the couch and I would be kissing his neck, or face and thinking about what I had learned about massage and what I thought would be arousing...and then watching him to see if he would react. I wanted so badly to be this 'exciting, romantic passionate woman'. It was very non threatening for me which I appreciated...exploring how holding his cheek like in the movies while kissing felt, etc.

Well...one night I remember kissing his neck...he is just lying there watching TV and all of the sudden he turns  towards me and begins to kiss me very passionately/aggressively and began to french kiss. I remember how panicked and freaked out I was..but I was so determined to be a 'passionate woman' that I didn't follow my instinct (which was to shove him away and kick and hit and anything else that would get him away from me) and just 'went with it'. I think that is what I did for the rest of my marriage...

I remember our honeymoon and one afternoon trying to do everything I could think of to arouse him and he just laid there...I finally asked him if it was 'doing anything for him' and he replied, "Yeah...I just wanted to see how long you would do it." Really? I never clued into what was really happening...

As I look back on it...I think he was so accustomed to 'getting gratification' without any 'output' he was content to just 'take' from me...and I guess I was just supposed to feel so 'grateful' that we were having relations I was supposed to be happy. I remember never feeling like I was doing it right...that there should be more to feel...I would try just about anything and everything...I never felt satisfied or like it was enough...I never understood how come he would always seem content and I was always the one that wanted more...he seemed satisfied...and I was always frustrated...

I remember a few times when he would be 'sexually assertive' and would trigger my defenses and I am sure I would react resistant to an extent and then I would just go along with it. There were a couple of times I remember him realizing that he had 'triggered' something...and he would just pull away and leave me alone. I think that conditioned me to think if I 'reacted' he would reject me. That just increased my 'putting up with things' because I 'wanted to be a good loving wife'.

So...here is what I am thinking...I have never known true passion...I have never known a man to 'give his love' to me. I have not connected emotionally with a man and been intimate while feeling that he 'truly loves me and wants to please me'. I tried to do that for my X...but I have no idea how successful I was, I don't think he was ever in a place to 'get it'... I think my marriage intimacy had little hope due to my 'abuse and touch issues' and his 'gay porn' issues. I think he felt if he 'married a woman' he would be 'fine'. whatever fine is...

That means...if I do find a man...and he is attracted to me..I am going to FREAK OUT! If he looks at me with true love and passion or touches me...I have no idea how I am going to deal with that...

Yeah...I just called and got a counseling appointment for tomorrow....

Meeting single men, dating? porn? When to ask...is it a deal breaker?

I must confess...'creepin on guys' (as my daughter calls it) has been fun now for a couple of weeks. But...the whole relationship issues are stirring up all kinds of stuff...

Ok..so I was having fun messaging a guy that really wasn't ready for anything more than friends...that was nice. I can handle that...then he makes me his 'favorite'. I still am not sure what that means...and then he changes his profile and says 'the water is too cold'. Well...what are you doing making me a favorite?

Ok...another thing I am noticing...guys don't seem to answer half the questions you ask them...what is up with that?  Isn't the point to get to know people? Aren't you on the website because you want to 'get to know people'?  Well...how the heck are you going to get to know them if you don't TALK to them?  Seriously, how will you know?

So...I email the guy and make sure I haven't given him the wrong impressions...I panic for a day or so...you see, I had talked about pron...then it occurs to me that maybe HE has porn issues...and now he is mad...and then my mind just spins off from there...

But I think about the fact that if he does have porn issues...is that a deal breaker?

So...my first reaction is YES!  No way in hell will I live with someone that cannot connect with me emotionally...that will cheat on me in their mind...I will not relive what I just got out of!

Then...I think...how many guys will that eliminate from my options?  Is that a bad thing? What if they have truly gone through the repentance process? I have seen those video clips that the couples sit there holding hands and talking about how they never thought they would make it...but they stuck together and now their relationship has depth they never imagined...

That, of course, makes me think I was such a failure in my marriage...that I gave up. I was the one that walked away. But I think the difference is that those videos have men that were willing to admit their problem and 'work' towards overcoming it...I don't think my X was even close to that. I keep thinking of him yelling at me in the car...asking why I would leave him...telling me, "I have never cheated on you with a man or a woman, well...maybe in my mind...but that doesn't count."  That doesn't sound like someone that is repentant and trying to change...you know?

Anyway...back to dating...

Wow...I have come full circle...I wrote down about 3 months ago that I would never allow a man to touch me intimately again...and here I am...stressing about wanting a relationship with a guy I have only seen pictures of and read a profile. To make it worse, I don't even know if it is true. Combine this with the many spiritual and uplifting experiences I have had over the past month or so and it pretty much screams to me...I need to pursue the idea of finding a man...

Then...I get thinking about the fact that there are so many women out there that are single...smart, beautiful, incredible women...what makes me think that someone as damaged as me has a chance?

Then I start thinking about how damaged I am...

I ponder what really went wrong in my marriage...my abuse issues...

Sigh...I think that might be a whole new post...

And to think .....I WANTED to come to earth to experience all these emotions and have all these 'mortal experiences'....wow...must be some kind of greater good at work..that is for sure...